By SHARON ROWEN

News Staff Writer

Kay County District Attorney Mark Gibson and Republican challenger Brian Hermanson faced off in a 90 minute forum Friday at city hall.

Hermanson introduced himself as a 33-year-resident of Ponca City, a trial lawyer and a fast talker that is not a wordsmith.

He said he knows Ponca City, Kay County and that a change in the political office is needed.

"It was decided that it needed to be done and that someone who believes in the court system and the community needs to be in the office," said Hermanson.

Hermanson highlighted things that he believes Gibson is not doing such as utilizing the Drug Court program to its full potential.

"The Drug Court program only has 36 people in it and needs to have more."

Gibson said that the program is funded by the Department of Human Services and that budget cuts limits the number of offenders allowed in the program.

Hermanson said he believes Drug Court should also be utilized for those with alcohol addiction.

"The district attorney is the gate keeper of Drug Court and Gibson refuses to place alcohol offenders into the program and because of that, those persons do not get the benefit of those things. Instead they go to jail and it cost us to incarcerate them, when they could be fitted with a $5 ankle bracelet monitoring whether or not they are offending alcohol."

Hermanson wants to implement a Veteran's Court.

"We know that sometimes those that come back from war have issues as a result of the stress they dealt with overseas," he said. "A veteran's court could provide vets with the necessary help they need instead of incarcerating them."

Gibson took the floor and said "I don't give you tall dark and handsome, I give you 24 years of experience. Being your D.A. is not just a job to me, it is my passion and my expertise and I have been fighting for victims rights while my opponent has been fighting with equal passion to protect the interest and wants of the criminals that create victims. There is nothing wrong with that. I simply submit to you that he should stick with what he is good at and I should stay with what I'm good at."

Gibson said being district attorney includes handling a $1.4 million budget that has been as high as $1.8 million before budget cuts eliminated the Drug Task Force.

"I have managed a budget for 11 years and we have never had money out of place with the exception of what you all know about and the money that was stolen."

Gibson said he is proud that all of the police departments in Kay County have endorsed him.

Hermanson said that the departments endorsed Gibson before meeting with him.

"The Perry Police Department did meet with me and chose not to endorse either candidate."

Gibson attacked Hermanson's past stance on the death penalty and spoke of the Brian Davis murder trial.

Davis was convicted of the murder of Jodi Sanford and sentenced to death. Gibson said Hermanson testified that Davis did not deserve death.

"That is a difference in philosophy that you can't switch," Gibson said. "You can't flip a switch and become who you are not, a leopard does not change it's spots. I believe that very much."

Hermanson said he was asked to testify at the trial because he coached Davis in fourth, fifth, and sixth grade basketball and that he told the jury that Davis was a hard worker during that time. "The kid I saw then did not deserve the death penalty but I did not know what he was like later. The voters need to know the full story of these things put before them," Hermanson said.

Gibson raised the fact that Hermanson defended Oklahoma City bombing co-conspirator Terry Nichols.

"My opponent sought out and chose the opportunity to represent Nichols. In an interview just four years ago he talks specifically about the fact that he wanted to represent him because it would give him a chance to save his life," said Gibson. "It is respectable of Hermanson to want to defend Nichols and it was needed but that is not the philosophy a district attorney should have. If your D.A. does not support the death penalty there is no possibility of a death penalty."

The pair then answered questions.

1. What do you consider the most important issue facing the D.A. and what is your plan to address it?

Hermanson answered creditability. He said the new D.A. needs to evaluate all of the financial issues and determine a better way to handle them. He touched on the stolen money issue and said he has spoken with other district attorneys that deposit seized money in a bank.

Gibson responded that the money was stolen by his then trusted first assistant, referring to Will Clark, who is now charged with embezzlement.

"The thief is no longer with us," Gibson said. "I and my staff fully cooperated with the investigation. We answered questions and took polygraphs. Only one person didn't cooperate and that was the thief. The day the money was found stolen he hired a lawyer and said "I ain't saying nothing to no one and until this day that remains the case."

Gibson said a bigger issue facing the D.A. is prescription drug abuse by juveniles.

He said methamphetamine is the worst drug but that prescription drugs are a major threat to children and that five over dose deaths have been reported in the past six years. He added that sixth graders are admitting to attending parties where pills are placed in a bucket and the kids dig in and take a handful.

"That is the biggest issue facing us today," Gibson said. "Pills may not hook you for life, they may kill you tonight."

2. What is your relationship with law enforcement?

Hermanson said he considers most officers and police chiefs his friends. "They know I treat them fairly in court."

Gibson said that the officers are not friends of Hermanson. "They have been accused by him of planting evidence."

3. How do you plan to make the most of the new county jail facility?

Hermanson said he does not believe it is the district attorney's job to fill up the jail.

"The district attorney's job is to see that proactive things are done to see that crime does not occur in the future," he said. "We will take advantage of all the things we can do in the jail such as a video arraignment."

Hermanson said he has been attending meetings of the Kay County Justice Facilities Authority when he can and that he does not see Gibson at the meetings.

Minutes kept by the county clerk's office show that Hermanson attended the June 11 authority meeting. Gibson has not attended one this year.

Gibson spoke of the continuing jail overcrowding problem. He said that every so often the judges approach him and say that some inmates have to be released because of the overcrowding. "Everyone in jail is in for a serious crime or have failed to appear for may times," Gibson said. "We will make liberal use of the new jail."

4. What do you see as the primary responsibility of the district attorney?

Hermanson said the D.A. is the top law enforcement officer in the county and is a sounding board for law enforcement.

"I believe he should be in the law enforcement offices often," Hermanson said. " The D.A. should be a person that puts in place funding so that things that we need to have can get placed. The discussion earlier by Gibson was that we no longer have a drug task force. We should have a drug task force. The D.A. should go out and seek funding to put drug task force back in place. Other counties in the state went out and got funding and put their task force back in place. We should do the same."

Gibson said the relationship between the D.A. and law enforcement is important and that justice is the job of the district attorney.

"The district attorney is the only lawyer that has more than one entity for a client," Gibson said. "I have three people I worry about, it is what is in the best interest of the state of Oklahoma, specifically in Kay and Noble counties, the victim, and future victims. Most violent criminals will repeat their behavior and so I have obligation to them as well."

5. Are you willing and prepared to seek the death penalty?

Hermanson said he has had problems with the death penalty in the past but that he believes in it. He referred to recent events when convicts on death row were proven innocent with DNA testing and moratoriums were put in place.

"There were serious problems with the death penalty but since then there have been new things that have happened," he said. "Situations where I see the death penalty being used include when someone kills for the thrill of it, someone who kills a police officer, people that could kill for the thrill of it are people who have lost their right to walk on this earth."

Gibson said he will allow the voters to reconcile Hermanson's "varying impositions."

"Four years ago he said 'No one ever deserves the death penalty and he said he represented Terry Nichols to save his life," Gibson said.

Gibson called the death penalty an awesome thing.

"I have sought the death penalty four times and each time it has been given, it is a rare thing to be used. It is an awesome thing. The very first time I ever did that, I saw a jury of 12 people come in after a long deliberation and every single man and woman was crying when they returned a death sentence. It is tough and should be tough and is an awesome, awesome thing to do."

Gibson said some families of a victim do not want the death penalty sought.

"I have never sought a death sentence unless the family wanted it."

6. Will you accept a full trial assignment?

Gibson said a D.A. that carries a case load is not doing his job.

"My opponent has never managed money successfully," Gibson said.

"Being D.A. is not just being a trail lawyer. I wished it was. I love being a trial lawyer 24/7. You can't carry a full case load and do your job right."

Hermanson said that he will carry a full case load and that he has seen district attorneys in the court room everyday.

"Mark has handled one case this year out of over 300," he said. "I'm going to take a full case load and do the work that is necessary. I feel you are hiring me because I'm an experienced trial lawyer. I think the district attorney has to be your face in the courtroom. The D.A. sets policies and how do you set policies if you don't go in the courtroom."

Hermanson said Noble County is under served and Gibson responded that six out of seven crimes occur in Kay County.

7. As district attorney, what is your position on using employees in campaign activity?

Gibson said his employees understand that they do not have to help him and that those that attend forums during business hours are using vacation time.

Hermanson commented that some offices at the courthouse has told their employees not to promote a candidate but that employees of Gibson park in the courthouse oval with Gibson bumper stickers.

"If I'm elected my employees will not park in the oval, that is where the people coming to the courthouse should park. It should be easy in and out access to the courthouse," Hermanson said.

8. How will you implement a better safe guard for seized monies?

"Money that comes into the office has to be accounted for," said Hermanson. If something has to be held in the safe then two people should be there when that safe is open. There should not be large sums of money kept in the courthouse. There are banks that pay interest, why not put that money where it is safe. When someone wins their forfeited money back you write them a check. It seems very simple. This should not have had happened in the first place."

Gibson reminded everyone that at the time the funds from the safe were discovered missing, the law required that seized monies be kept in the safe. Shortly after the incident the law changed and seized money is now kept in the county treasurer's office as the statute requires.

9. Which is cheaper, the death penalty or life in prison?

Hermanson said studies show that it is more expensive to pursue the death penalty.

Gibson said he will not make a prosecution decision based on dollars and cents.

"I don't agree that it is more expensive but it is not relevant," he said.

In closing, Hermanson said that if Gibson's passion is to prosecute, then he should be in the courtroom.

"I will make things happen for you. My history has been when someone in Ponca City needs something done lots of times they come to me."

Hermanson said when he was asked to represent Nichols, he sought advice.

"I was told I should feel honored that someone thinks you can handle that type of case and secondly you are an officer of the court, you don't have the right to say no you need to say yes. I took that very seriously."

Hermanson said that he will take being D.A. seriously and that he is doing this because someone needed to step up.

"This is something that had to be done. Someone had to say enough we need a district attorney's office that is responsive to the people, that is honest and is willing to deal with the issues that need to be dealt with. We need a change."

Gibson responded "Don't buy the goods he is selling you folks. He can tell you what he wants to about Terry Nichols and I will read his words again, "Representing him would give me a chance to save his life."